Last night’s 10-point road loss TCU felt crushing. I feel like a Big Ol Idiot for watching the whole thing. The Jayhawks were outplayed the whole 40 minutes. KU got decimated on the glass. They could have won the Big 12 outright, but now need to win two games in three days for the (likely) tie. (Baylor plays Iowa State at home on Saturday). It’s too late in the season to look this bad.
A question for my fellow Streakers—is there a talent crisis at KU? The Remy Martin experience has gone splat, definitively Not Kablam-o. Ochai Agbaji needed a NPOY campaign to crack the late lottery discussion, and he’s still not even a lock there. Fran said Joseph Yesufu wouldn’t have started at Drake this year. Five-star recruits Gradey Dick and MJ Rice are inbound, and yet KU has a lower ranked class than Alabama and Arkansas.
Am I OVERREACTING? Will things be FINE? Can TWO ideas be true at once? Kevin Simpson if I don’t hear from you I’m going to FREAK OUT. Hit me with thoughts below, please, I need to talk things through, my therapist is on vacation.
Talent Crisis? No. We're plenty talented. We aren't getting top class after top class like we used to. But honestly even when we did it's not like those were our best years.
This year, we are a solid big man away from being really really good. I love David. He tries hard. He aint it. We don't have anything better than him on the bench though. Sometimes he plays like a monster and when he does we look fantastic. But, I feel like you can count on one hand where he, by himself, got himself into position and was able to get a quick catch and lay up. He always seems to get the ball out of position and has to try and make a postman move which he is not great at.
You also can't forget, this isn't the big 12 from 5 to 10 years ago. every team is a tough game. TCU is a solid team. In the past bill self teams have had ? off games in the big 12 but because the level of competition wasn't what it is now we would get away with it.
2 years ago we had arguably one of bill self's best teams and the postseason got taken away from us. Only being 2 years removed from that it's hard to say that we have a crisis. it feels like we have a crisis because We don't get to hang a banner from that season.. I'm not gonna say that we should be called national champions because plenty of number one overall seeds have lost early. H*** look at us in 1997, 2010, 2011. But d*** i* a final 4 seems very likely.
Also, I hate blaming The refs. I don't usually believe in it because usually it comes down to only blaming them for 1 or 2 plays. But, I really really believe that the refs last night hindered us from being able to play aggressively at all.. And I felt like TCU was allowed to be aggressive all night. I was very frustrated by that.
I too am a Dave apologist... he plays hard and has not been put in a position to succeed. He is not angled toward playing to his strengths, whether that be by coaching choice or necessity because of the thin frontcourt. I feel for Dave!!!
I was saying this last night in a chat, but I can't wait to see which NCAA Tournament pod draws the Big 12 refs. Their reputation is the worst of all the conference groups, and they're going to absolutely nuke an entire quarter of the bracket. There's room for an Uncut Gems-level parlay play here, Michael.
What a disappointing loss yesterday and what a difference 3 halves makes. During the first ten minutes of the Baylor KU looked like world beaters and now we’re getting outplayed for 40 minutes against TCU. Most worrisome/disappointing thing is that KU didn’t play with any fire. Coming off a loss, and with huge Big 12 implications, to play like that is a total buzz kill.
In his postgame presser, Bill Self mentioned multiple times that we might have a talent deficiency:
“I can handle getting beat. We're not talented enough that we were going to run a table. I can handle that. I struggle with when you need to sub when a guy plays 30 seconds because he doesn't go after the ball. I just find that you know pretty inexcusable and hopefully that won't happen again.”
This feels like deja vu to last year’s post USC beat down presser. I just can’t comprehend how much we struggle against lesser, yet much more athletic, teams. We’re talented but not really athletic. I do believe that’ll change next year with the class coming in.
Also, for an elite offense we sure have a ton of prolonged scoring droughts. I’m a huge supporter of Harris, but we can’t have our starting pg put up goose eggs two games in a row!
I’m sad since we went from potentially clinching the big 12 in Waco to now praying for a share. And I don’t want to hear about KU being gassed, Baylor is playing like 7 dudes and looking very good.
With all that being said, we win 2 homes games and we’ll be the 1 seed in the big 12 tourney (my confidence has been shattered if we can do this though!) and if we win the big 12 tourney we’re a likely 1 seed.
What has frustrated me about Harris the last 2 games is he has driven them all and gotten to the point where he could shoot that nice little floater that he has and he just hasn't done it. I don't know if he lost confidence in it or if hes trying to do something else. But I really do like his floater and I think that he is a scoring threat with it.
I still don't know if I fully believe that TCU is more athletic than we are. I just think they played more aggressively. They pushed us off of our spots, they drove it into our chests.There were times where they were playing keep away from us down low and it didn't Even look like we were trying to jump Not like they jump higher than us but just straight up I didn't see some effort..
yep all of this is true. Harris being allergic to shooting it cramps the spacing a lot. We need to make things easier for the wing scorers, not way harder. If only we had some kind of ballhandler scoring figure oh wait.......
I think Harris is Similar to David. He's great and dominant in practice but has the yips in games. Idk.
Also, we have TWO ball handling scoring figures. If you're talking about Remy "fuhget about it." The dude can't defend. Like, he can't defend to the point where it's like an automatic bucket for the other team. Never seen anyone look so quick offensively and so slow defensively.
As for Joe...he needs more PT if Harris ain't gonna score. I thought he looked good yesterday and the refs screwed him twice.
Joehawk, great post first of all. I think you hit on a lot of stuff here. Also thank you for dropping those Self quotes in... I don't think Self is completely blameless in all of this BUT he still sees the game so clearly, and his remarks always feel validating in some way.
The offense is something I haven't quite understood either--we have great ORtg or what have you, but they flunk the eye test regularly. The ball gets jammed. Harris is a find... but man, we can't have a guard in this system that is absolutely allergic to shooting. Should Marcus Garrett have stayed, would that have helped things?!! These are the panicked questions I'm asking myself this AM.
Also, yes, the runaway success of Kofi Cockburn and Oscar Tshiebwe has been... dispiriting. I have no idea if we were ever in on Oscar, but you certainly cannot say there were not quality bigs in the portal!
You nailed it regarding the offense. Good thing the selection committee said they’ll be relying more on metrics than the eye test. Also, CB needs to let it fly a bit more from 3. There are 3-4 instances a game where he pumps fake and passes up a decent look from 3, only to penetrate and pass off. I know he doesn’t have the quickest release, but let it fly! Self has eluded to this multiple times. Another thing hurting our offense-missed free throws more specifically front ends. It’s absolutely MADDENING!
I wish MG had stayed. Not as our PG but he would have helped immensely on the defensive side of things. We haven’t even touched on that side of the ball. This team does not need to be world beaters defensively, but they cannot continue giving up so many shots at the rim. The lackluster D, is also contributing to the offensive droughts. This squad needs stops so they can get out and run. We are elite in transition, the issue is sometimes we can’t manufacture fast break situations.
oh yeah, you can see Self screaming at CB to shoot it. if Bill Self is telling you to shoot a three, you gotta shoot that three man!!!
I have a theory (based on nothing) that, because of the limited amount of time you can practice, that KU has never devoted meaningful practice time to free throws. When dudes get shots up it's gotta be extracurricularly. I hope I don't get sued for this theory
I certainly don't think it's a talent crisis, but I do think it's a crisis of talented players that Bill trusts. Last night was brutal to watch. It seemed like there was a lack of fire from the players in a game that felt like it should have been a bounce back after Saturday. That being said, I think that this season there have been times where Bill overthinks and doesn't trust some guys because they didn't get playing time earlier in the year because he's super competitive and doesn't like dropping games to develop guys.
Watching DMac and Mitch get rolled out over and over again last night despite the clear indication that they were getting rolled on the defensive boards was frustrating. When Zach came in and provided a spark immediately with the block and defensive rebound and some intensity and then didn't see the floor again because of a cut over his eye, it was one of the few times I've questioned Bill's coaching. That being said, KU was down 4 under a minute and down 6 with the ball with under a minute, so they almost pulled it off. I think the lack of trust in guys like Yesufu, Clemence, Adams, and Remy hurts the potential of this team once it gets down to it in the tourney.
I don't think KU can make a title run without DMac playing and playing well, but not trying to go smaller in games like last night feels like it could be a misstep. Sure TCU might get buckets inside with Lampkin being guarded by Wilson, but they were getting buckets inside and all of the rebounds anyways. Why not go small and try to create a mismatch on the other end and open up the floor for CB and Ochai a little more?
Just a disappointing turnout and one that honestly lessened my excitement for the tourney. I went into the Baylor game thinking this team could challenge for the championship (they still could, but unlikely), and came out of the TCU game thinking this team will need to have some luck to get to the Elite Eight. Smaller schools usually bring out quick guards which seems to be this team's kryptonite, and it feels like there's going to be a bad Second Round matchup waiting for this team.
Devon, always good to hear from you. A lot of this resonated with me, because I have not quite understood the substitution patterns all season. And like you said, it comes down to trust. Self has made an honest effort with Remy, but it's been a bust and I'm not sure it's fair to assign either party the full blame on that. There's just not enough time to meaningfully incorporate Yesufu and Clemence, though I love some stuff I've. seen from them. It's kind of a bummer to think we should only be playing 6-7 guys now, but maybe that's just the way it is.
To make waves in the tournament, this team is going to need to hit the matchup lottery. We gotta see something from Jalen Wilson—it's definitely not a coincidence that his best games came when we were short-handed (he needs the ball to do stuff) and he needs to find ways to get in the flow of the game without the ball in his hands.
I, too, have a gut feeling that Dave will play relatively well in the tournament. The teams I'm most afraid of (tempo-pushing, happily-chucking teams like Auburn, Alabama or Purdue) we won't have to play until later in the tourney. I am burning sage in the hopes that teams like Davidson and South Dakota State do not make the field.
A talent crisis? That's being over dramatic. KU has been THE most consistent, talented team over a 38 year period since the 1983/84 season were we've had 0 losing seasons, 2 national championships and 9 Final Fours. Our worst season was the probation season of 1988/89 when we went 19-12. Since the 83/84 season, KU has a record of 1098-267, and we have appeared in EVERY NCAA tournament since then except for the probation year of 1988/89. So it's absolutely unheard of for ANY team at any level to be that consistent for almost 40 years. It's unheard of to be that consistent for 10 years let alone how long KU has done it. Please we are on the verge of winning another conference championship and you say we have a talent crisis? No, we are having a "we need to step up our game and stop being lazy" crisis.
I hear that! I'm banner greedy, admittedly. We're about to overtake UK in the all-time wins list, but let's not check out the national championship tally. Is it wrong of me to expect more, given the resources and $$$ this program has access to? Yes, they've earned their blue-blood status, and have been the most consistent program for decades. The brand is strong! We need more banners!
There's a two-point defense crisis. Whether that's because Self is nearing the end of his time or because David McCormack is uniquely incapable of being an effective defensive big man in a system built to make big men supremely effective (Jeff Withey's junior season is the most valuable of any player in the Self era. You won't convince me otherwise.) is an open question for me. That McCormack often can't successfully gather and convert gilt-edged pin-down chances on the offensive end makes me lean toward him being the limiting factor. Jalen Wilson being an implosive athlete and Christian Braun not (yet?) having the same explosiveness in the half court as he accesses in transition really exacerbate relatively minor issues against long, athletic opponents and/or when open shots aren't falling.
Withey Hive ACTIVATE! I'm with that Bret. Withey is all over the KU records board, especially when you check out the advanced stuff. Was averaging almost four blocks for two straight years!
accurate diagnoses on Braun/Mack/Wilson... was it wrong of me to expect more of an adjustment? It's not like Mack's inability to convert nice set-pieces is a new wrinkle. It seems possible that, pretty early along in a given college season, there's just not much new stuff you can install effectively. idk. But I definitely wonder what our ideal playing style should have been.
Not yet but it's close. Braun will be back next year. Adams and Clemence will be contributors. I'd imagine we'll pick up a key transfer as well. Need the NCAA cloud to be over us so recruiting can get back to where it is. Last night was awful but I'm not overly concerned.
I don’t think it’s a talent crisis, and I think the fact that we actually DO have this much talent is a real indictment of the job that Self has done this year. A couple things that have crossed my mind the last week or so — and maybe they’re just aspects of the same issue:
1) Every year, we hear the similar refrain that it’s “not a vintage Bill Self defense.” It’s been that way since we went to a 4-guard lineup and abandoned the high-low 2-big offense. The notable exception was when Doke was at the 5, but we just can’t plan on having a first team All-American rim protector every year. Good defense clearly can be played with 4 guards. If Self can’t figure out how, he should hire someone.
2) Since Danny Manning left, post player development has been woeful (again, excepting Doke). McCormack was a McDonald’s All American! If Norm Roberts can’t get it done, again, hire someone else.
Talent Crisis? No. We're plenty talented. We aren't getting top class after top class like we used to. But honestly even when we did it's not like those were our best years.
This year, we are a solid big man away from being really really good. I love David. He tries hard. He aint it. We don't have anything better than him on the bench though. Sometimes he plays like a monster and when he does we look fantastic. But, I feel like you can count on one hand where he, by himself, got himself into position and was able to get a quick catch and lay up. He always seems to get the ball out of position and has to try and make a postman move which he is not great at.
You also can't forget, this isn't the big 12 from 5 to 10 years ago. every team is a tough game. TCU is a solid team. In the past bill self teams have had ? off games in the big 12 but because the level of competition wasn't what it is now we would get away with it.
2 years ago we had arguably one of bill self's best teams and the postseason got taken away from us. Only being 2 years removed from that it's hard to say that we have a crisis. it feels like we have a crisis because We don't get to hang a banner from that season.. I'm not gonna say that we should be called national champions because plenty of number one overall seeds have lost early. H*** look at us in 1997, 2010, 2011. But d*** i* a final 4 seems very likely.
Also, I hate blaming The refs. I don't usually believe in it because usually it comes down to only blaming them for 1 or 2 plays. But, I really really believe that the refs last night hindered us from being able to play aggressively at all.. And I felt like TCU was allowed to be aggressive all night. I was very frustrated by that.
I too am a Dave apologist... he plays hard and has not been put in a position to succeed. He is not angled toward playing to his strengths, whether that be by coaching choice or necessity because of the thin frontcourt. I feel for Dave!!!
I was saying this last night in a chat, but I can't wait to see which NCAA Tournament pod draws the Big 12 refs. Their reputation is the worst of all the conference groups, and they're going to absolutely nuke an entire quarter of the bracket. There's room for an Uncut Gems-level parlay play here, Michael.
What a disappointing loss yesterday and what a difference 3 halves makes. During the first ten minutes of the Baylor KU looked like world beaters and now we’re getting outplayed for 40 minutes against TCU. Most worrisome/disappointing thing is that KU didn’t play with any fire. Coming off a loss, and with huge Big 12 implications, to play like that is a total buzz kill.
In his postgame presser, Bill Self mentioned multiple times that we might have a talent deficiency:
“I can handle getting beat. We're not talented enough that we were going to run a table. I can handle that. I struggle with when you need to sub when a guy plays 30 seconds because he doesn't go after the ball. I just find that you know pretty inexcusable and hopefully that won't happen again.”
This feels like deja vu to last year’s post USC beat down presser. I just can’t comprehend how much we struggle against lesser, yet much more athletic, teams. We’re talented but not really athletic. I do believe that’ll change next year with the class coming in.
Also, for an elite offense we sure have a ton of prolonged scoring droughts. I’m a huge supporter of Harris, but we can’t have our starting pg put up goose eggs two games in a row!
I’m sad since we went from potentially clinching the big 12 in Waco to now praying for a share. And I don’t want to hear about KU being gassed, Baylor is playing like 7 dudes and looking very good.
With all that being said, we win 2 homes games and we’ll be the 1 seed in the big 12 tourney (my confidence has been shattered if we can do this though!) and if we win the big 12 tourney we’re a likely 1 seed.
What has frustrated me about Harris the last 2 games is he has driven them all and gotten to the point where he could shoot that nice little floater that he has and he just hasn't done it. I don't know if he lost confidence in it or if hes trying to do something else. But I really do like his floater and I think that he is a scoring threat with it.
I still don't know if I fully believe that TCU is more athletic than we are. I just think they played more aggressively. They pushed us off of our spots, they drove it into our chests.There were times where they were playing keep away from us down low and it didn't Even look like we were trying to jump Not like they jump higher than us but just straight up I didn't see some effort..
yep all of this is true. Harris being allergic to shooting it cramps the spacing a lot. We need to make things easier for the wing scorers, not way harder. If only we had some kind of ballhandler scoring figure oh wait.......
I think Harris is Similar to David. He's great and dominant in practice but has the yips in games. Idk.
Also, we have TWO ball handling scoring figures. If you're talking about Remy "fuhget about it." The dude can't defend. Like, he can't defend to the point where it's like an automatic bucket for the other team. Never seen anyone look so quick offensively and so slow defensively.
As for Joe...he needs more PT if Harris ain't gonna score. I thought he looked good yesterday and the refs screwed him twice.
Also, internet rumors going around that we literally could have had Kofi transfer here but we were set on Dave. If true, I’ll be walking into traffic
Joehawk, great post first of all. I think you hit on a lot of stuff here. Also thank you for dropping those Self quotes in... I don't think Self is completely blameless in all of this BUT he still sees the game so clearly, and his remarks always feel validating in some way.
The offense is something I haven't quite understood either--we have great ORtg or what have you, but they flunk the eye test regularly. The ball gets jammed. Harris is a find... but man, we can't have a guard in this system that is absolutely allergic to shooting. Should Marcus Garrett have stayed, would that have helped things?!! These are the panicked questions I'm asking myself this AM.
Also, yes, the runaway success of Kofi Cockburn and Oscar Tshiebwe has been... dispiriting. I have no idea if we were ever in on Oscar, but you certainly cannot say there were not quality bigs in the portal!
You nailed it regarding the offense. Good thing the selection committee said they’ll be relying more on metrics than the eye test. Also, CB needs to let it fly a bit more from 3. There are 3-4 instances a game where he pumps fake and passes up a decent look from 3, only to penetrate and pass off. I know he doesn’t have the quickest release, but let it fly! Self has eluded to this multiple times. Another thing hurting our offense-missed free throws more specifically front ends. It’s absolutely MADDENING!
I wish MG had stayed. Not as our PG but he would have helped immensely on the defensive side of things. We haven’t even touched on that side of the ball. This team does not need to be world beaters defensively, but they cannot continue giving up so many shots at the rim. The lackluster D, is also contributing to the offensive droughts. This squad needs stops so they can get out and run. We are elite in transition, the issue is sometimes we can’t manufacture fast break situations.
oh yeah, you can see Self screaming at CB to shoot it. if Bill Self is telling you to shoot a three, you gotta shoot that three man!!!
I have a theory (based on nothing) that, because of the limited amount of time you can practice, that KU has never devoted meaningful practice time to free throws. When dudes get shots up it's gotta be extracurricularly. I hope I don't get sued for this theory
I agree 100%. We DO need more banners. We more than likely would have won in 2019/20, we should have won in 2003 and 1957. But we will get more soon.
🙏🙏🙏 I know you are right Mike!
I certainly don't think it's a talent crisis, but I do think it's a crisis of talented players that Bill trusts. Last night was brutal to watch. It seemed like there was a lack of fire from the players in a game that felt like it should have been a bounce back after Saturday. That being said, I think that this season there have been times where Bill overthinks and doesn't trust some guys because they didn't get playing time earlier in the year because he's super competitive and doesn't like dropping games to develop guys.
Watching DMac and Mitch get rolled out over and over again last night despite the clear indication that they were getting rolled on the defensive boards was frustrating. When Zach came in and provided a spark immediately with the block and defensive rebound and some intensity and then didn't see the floor again because of a cut over his eye, it was one of the few times I've questioned Bill's coaching. That being said, KU was down 4 under a minute and down 6 with the ball with under a minute, so they almost pulled it off. I think the lack of trust in guys like Yesufu, Clemence, Adams, and Remy hurts the potential of this team once it gets down to it in the tourney.
I don't think KU can make a title run without DMac playing and playing well, but not trying to go smaller in games like last night feels like it could be a misstep. Sure TCU might get buckets inside with Lampkin being guarded by Wilson, but they were getting buckets inside and all of the rebounds anyways. Why not go small and try to create a mismatch on the other end and open up the floor for CB and Ochai a little more?
Just a disappointing turnout and one that honestly lessened my excitement for the tourney. I went into the Baylor game thinking this team could challenge for the championship (they still could, but unlikely), and came out of the TCU game thinking this team will need to have some luck to get to the Elite Eight. Smaller schools usually bring out quick guards which seems to be this team's kryptonite, and it feels like there's going to be a bad Second Round matchup waiting for this team.
Devon, always good to hear from you. A lot of this resonated with me, because I have not quite understood the substitution patterns all season. And like you said, it comes down to trust. Self has made an honest effort with Remy, but it's been a bust and I'm not sure it's fair to assign either party the full blame on that. There's just not enough time to meaningfully incorporate Yesufu and Clemence, though I love some stuff I've. seen from them. It's kind of a bummer to think we should only be playing 6-7 guys now, but maybe that's just the way it is.
To make waves in the tournament, this team is going to need to hit the matchup lottery. We gotta see something from Jalen Wilson—it's definitely not a coincidence that his best games came when we were short-handed (he needs the ball to do stuff) and he needs to find ways to get in the flow of the game without the ball in his hands.
I, too, have a gut feeling that Dave will play relatively well in the tournament. The teams I'm most afraid of (tempo-pushing, happily-chucking teams like Auburn, Alabama or Purdue) we won't have to play until later in the tourney. I am burning sage in the hopes that teams like Davidson and South Dakota State do not make the field.
A talent crisis? That's being over dramatic. KU has been THE most consistent, talented team over a 38 year period since the 1983/84 season were we've had 0 losing seasons, 2 national championships and 9 Final Fours. Our worst season was the probation season of 1988/89 when we went 19-12. Since the 83/84 season, KU has a record of 1098-267, and we have appeared in EVERY NCAA tournament since then except for the probation year of 1988/89. So it's absolutely unheard of for ANY team at any level to be that consistent for almost 40 years. It's unheard of to be that consistent for 10 years let alone how long KU has done it. Please we are on the verge of winning another conference championship and you say we have a talent crisis? No, we are having a "we need to step up our game and stop being lazy" crisis.
I hear that! I'm banner greedy, admittedly. We're about to overtake UK in the all-time wins list, but let's not check out the national championship tally. Is it wrong of me to expect more, given the resources and $$$ this program has access to? Yes, they've earned their blue-blood status, and have been the most consistent program for decades. The brand is strong! We need more banners!
There's a two-point defense crisis. Whether that's because Self is nearing the end of his time or because David McCormack is uniquely incapable of being an effective defensive big man in a system built to make big men supremely effective (Jeff Withey's junior season is the most valuable of any player in the Self era. You won't convince me otherwise.) is an open question for me. That McCormack often can't successfully gather and convert gilt-edged pin-down chances on the offensive end makes me lean toward him being the limiting factor. Jalen Wilson being an implosive athlete and Christian Braun not (yet?) having the same explosiveness in the half court as he accesses in transition really exacerbate relatively minor issues against long, athletic opponents and/or when open shots aren't falling.
Withey Hive ACTIVATE! I'm with that Bret. Withey is all over the KU records board, especially when you check out the advanced stuff. Was averaging almost four blocks for two straight years!
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/kansas/leaders-and-records.html
accurate diagnoses on Braun/Mack/Wilson... was it wrong of me to expect more of an adjustment? It's not like Mack's inability to convert nice set-pieces is a new wrinkle. It seems possible that, pretty early along in a given college season, there's just not much new stuff you can install effectively. idk. But I definitely wonder what our ideal playing style should have been.
Not yet but it's close. Braun will be back next year. Adams and Clemence will be contributors. I'd imagine we'll pick up a key transfer as well. Need the NCAA cloud to be over us so recruiting can get back to where it is. Last night was awful but I'm not overly concerned.
I don’t think it’s a talent crisis, and I think the fact that we actually DO have this much talent is a real indictment of the job that Self has done this year. A couple things that have crossed my mind the last week or so — and maybe they’re just aspects of the same issue:
1) Every year, we hear the similar refrain that it’s “not a vintage Bill Self defense.” It’s been that way since we went to a 4-guard lineup and abandoned the high-low 2-big offense. The notable exception was when Doke was at the 5, but we just can’t plan on having a first team All-American rim protector every year. Good defense clearly can be played with 4 guards. If Self can’t figure out how, he should hire someone.
2) Since Danny Manning left, post player development has been woeful (again, excepting Doke). McCormack was a McDonald’s All American! If Norm Roberts can’t get it done, again, hire someone else.