Q&A: Josh Swade

If you’re a KU fan, there’s a 99.9% chance you’ve seen Josh Swade’s work. He’s the director of the Jayhawk basketball-centered “30 for 30” documentary There’s No Place Like Home, which chronicled David Booth’s purchase at auction of James Naismith original rules of basketball on behalf of KU. (The program recently celebrated the 10-year anniversary with some first-person from Swade, which is absolutely worth reading). But that’s just the surface of Swade’s Jayhawk connection.

As a filmmaker, Swade is constantly working on the sports and pop culture front, putting together projects like “Beware of the Phog” above and #BringBackSungWoo, a charming piece about an unlikely Kansas City Royals fan. But he’s also extensively profiled pioneers in the rap scene, producing a doc on Rick Rubin and the forthcoming Ricky Powell: The Individualist, which will drop in 2021.

I e-mailed Swade to get his take on the modern state of KU basketball, his ultimate Jayhawk grails, and the days between There’s No Place Like Home and now.

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First of all, I’d be curious as how your relationship changed with KU basketball in the past 10 years. Do you feel closer to it or further away from it?

JOSH SWADE: Great question. The first couple of years after we won the rules it was a lot of fun with everything that went down. From the film coming out, to The DeBruce Center being constructed, to the rules finally coming home, it was an exciting time. But nothing really changed too much in terms of my fandom. It wasn’t really impacted positively or negatively because of the rules. It’s kind of hard to explain but in some ways, the rules felt like a completely separate thing from me being a Kansas basketball fan focused on recruiting and lineups and matchups and all the regular day-to-day fan stuff.

Like a lot of others, I do feel less enthused this year. With COVID and the season ending so abruptly last year, especially with that very special team we had (that no one could score on).... How do you not re-evaluate the importance you put on something that can be taken from you so suddenly? I suppose there is a lesson in there about life. But let’s be honest, I’m sure very soon I will be totally consumed by it all over again.

Is there a topic in basketball culture at large that you’re fascinated by right now?

I’m intrigued by the global impact and growth of basketball. I’m really curious to see the rate at which international players will continue to infiltrate the NBA. It really makes you wonder what the future of professional basketball might look like.

In terms of Kansas I am forever in-love with, and in-awe of, the tradition. So my tendency there is to want to look back and explore what hasn’t been looked at or what could perhaps benefit from a fresh perspective. I did make a short ESPN film on the guys who made the “Pay Heed” banner. I think a lot of KU fans missed that one. That is the quintessential kind of story I like to tell. Quirky and a little absurd, but truly one-of-a-kind. I’m always looking for Jayhawk stories like that so if anyone out there is sitting on something hit me up!

You mentioned that you’re a big-time collector of vintage KU basketball gear. I know the drill. What’s your favorite item you’ve acquired over the years, and what’s the grail you’re still searching for?

I’ve collected a bunch of Kansas stuff over the years. I think my favorite, rarest piece is the Chalk Line Sweatshirt, below. It’s the only one I’ve ever seen.

Josh’s sweet Chalk Line sweatshirt

I’m always on the hunt for various snapbacks from the ‘90s. I do have a pretty extensive history with sneaker collecting. I know you’ve pointed out the Jordan 13 Jayhawk Player exclusives before in your newsletter. And I have to tell you that for a solid year plus, we are talking somewhere around 2006, there was a pair of Jayhawk 13’s sitting on eBay in Size 13 for a $350 Buy It Now. I had a rule then that I only collected my size (11). But I should have made an exception on those kicks. Not buying them is one of my biggest regrets. I’d love to find them but am not holding my breath.

The back of the previously mentioned sweatshirt

This is sort of related but I’ve stopped and started over the years around collecting Phog Allen books. There are some really old and valuable books out there by Allen. His first book, My Basketball Bible (1928) just feels like you’re picking up history. Another favorite Allen book is, Better Basketball (1937) I have an absolute pristine copy of that one.

I have a couple Phog and Wilt autographs, would love a Naismith auto. But I don’t chase that stuff too hard.

College basketball has taken a backseat in the pop culture—not having March Madness surely isn’t helping. Is there an easy fix for college hoops, or do you think it’ll become a more and more niche fanhood?

There are a ton of things you can point to as reasons for college basketball’s decline. The loss of top flight talent to the NBA. The lack of coaching personalities that once littered the game. A fresh group of exciting commentators and journalists. Combine that with the NCAA’s dismal approval rating and you have a lot of people tuning out.

This is just a theory, but if big cities could turn it around…. If New York mattered—which is to say if St. John’s or UCONN or Syracuse could return to perennial contender status, or even if a UCLA or USC could matter again—I suspect there might be more media attention on the sport. But unless there is some way to keep the best players in school, I think it will continue to become more niche as you say.

What changes do you want to see in college sports, with respect to how the money flows?

This is a tricky one. I am absolutely in favor of players in revenue sports being compensated via a stipend raise. I think obviously it must be monitored closely. I am not in favor of a free market system where colleges just try to outbid each other for the best players. What’s the point of that? That’s just pro basketball. The process is in place for players to monetize their name and likeness soon, without institutional involvement.

I think that is going to be meaningful for basketball players at a place like KU. They might not get rich but you have to think the third-party social media deals from local businesses will matter for some of the most popular players. While this is all positive, I have no clue how it will be policed from a recruiting standpoint. How will you stop a wealthy booster with a car dealership from overpaying a kid for his “Instagram posts?” My sense is there will be dollar limits put on these things by the NCAA but monitoring it will be very difficult.

We’ve both been New Yorkers a long time. Do you think physical distance from the program has only heightened your appreciation of KU basketball?

This is an idea that has rang true for me for years. The early days of living in New York and going to places like the Park Avenue Country Club (which was way better than it sounds) or the Backpage, or the Village Pourhouse, just this sense of finding your crew in a huge city, like “oh these are my people,” that is a tremendously powerful phenomenon, especially during your early years when you don’t know a lot of people. Without question, moving away from Kansas basketball made me appreciate Kansas basketball more. It made me love Kansas basketball more. I  never, ever would take it for granted like I did when the Fieldhouse was just down the road. And now, when I go back, it’s more special than ever. One of my favorite experiences in life now is taking east coasters (who think they know what big time college basketball is) to Allen Fieldhouse and every single time they are literally like, “Jesus, I had no clue.”

Five favorite Jayhawks of all time, go:

Danny Manning
Paul Pierce
Kirk Hinrich
Frank Mason
Ron Kellogg

Do you ever get back to Lawrence at all, and if so, what are your favorite places/local business/things that bring to back to your childhood?

I try to get back for at least one game at the Fieldhouse per year. As a kid we were beyond lucky to grow up with two season tickets in our family. My dad and I would drive up K-10 and not say a word to each other while we listened to the pre-game. That’s when I learned this was serious stuff. We’d finish the pre-game on the radio in the parking lot and then run like hell to our seats. We’d win (almost always), race to our car to beat traffic and drive home. There were not a lot of extracurricular activities.

As I got older and started enjoying more of Lawrence I began to fall in love with so many spots. Bars mostly! Obviously the Wheel is a special place. (Shouts to Knobby!). I often find myself at the Oread.  But I also love and have incredible memories at so many places; music venues like the Bottleneck and the Granada and then places like Louise’s West, Red Lion and Yacht Club.

It’s been 10 years since “No Place Like Home…” what would you like to see happen with KU basketball in the next ten years?

Easy. Lock Self up! If Bill Self is on the sideline for the next ten years then we have nothing to worry about. I can’t stress this enough but we, as Kansas fans, need to truly appreciate this man in the moment. In my opinion Bill Self is the best basketball coach in America and I do not think it’s close. The stats speak for themselves. If you want to knock him for tourney mishaps… OK, fine. But the tournament is a crap shoot. And we’ve had 75 years of choking in the tournament, nothing new there.

I really am looking forward to Self finishing his career at Kansas. As unfortunate as this NCAA nonsense is, I think it has motivated Self and reignited him in a way. We might be better off for it. But for now, why aren’t we offering him a lifetime contract? Or at least extending him 10 years?

If Self ever leaves, who do you want to see on the bench for KU? 

This is painful to imagine because inevitably it means regression. This is kind of a sore subject for me but I get frustrated by people who just think the next guy is just gonna show up and the winning will continue. (Look at schools like Indiana and UCLA). I think part of that over-confidence comes from the good fortune of three hall of-famers in succession.

But to stop ranting and answer your question… I would definitely look outside of the Kansas family if this nightmare scenario were ever to become reality. I’m not really up on the young, under-40 crop of coaches coming up in college basketball. Tony Bennett is a guy that I think does a great job, especially defensively. Brad Stevens would obviously be someone you’d have to look at, that is if a return to college would interest him. I know people like Chris Beard but the in-conference move would strike me as unlikely. I’m also not sure he’d want to follow Self. Like I said, I’d really rather not have to face this conundrum for some time!

Josh’s doc about the rap photographer Ricky Powell is out soon.